MIDI resoultion for midi CC ramps / simplify

When recording MIDI data using the new CC simplification, it sounds very aliased.

You can hear in the audio, the ramp sounds like it moves in steps, as oppose to be smooth like when automating using steps.


Is there any settings to adjust the CC resolution for the ramps / simplification of the curves?

Hi,

I’m sorry, I don’t hear any difference.

The curves seems to be perfect for me. You would get the very same playback result, if you would draw these curves manually. So it’s definitely not linked to the “recording resolution”.

As far as I know, there is not something like the Reduction Level for the automation.

Hi Martin!, thanks for taking a look.

Really?, it does sound significantly less smooth, It’s a bit late here, but I’ll try to make maybe a more obvious example. I’ve been hearing at similar things for a while today, but I think it might be worse when automating things at higer speeds.

It sounds as if the CC for the ramps are being sent at a fix rate, a lot less often than the CC steps are.

Ok, here is another example, I do this a type of “vibrato” a lot to create movement.
It’s just a bit extreme here, but also shows a similar point (sorry for the horrible sounding melody :sweat_smile:)

The shape of the optimized curve atually looks failry good, but sounds terrible.
It sounds like broken squares more like the waves they should be.


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Ok, here is another one, this time is hopefully a bit more visual as well :wink:
I render just a ramp up/down and the wave is rising slowly, but falling in steps where the automation is rising in steps and falling in a ramp :roll_eyes:

This one is a zoom in of the first automation.

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Hi,

Now I can hear it (with headphones). Thank you for the demo.

As this is not new in Cubase 13, could you please verify, if this was the same in Cubase 12 already?

Which synth did you use? If you used a build-in Steinberg synth, would you be willing to share this test project with me, please?

Thank you!

Hi Martin!, absolutely!

I was just recording a small video and created a new project with only Retrologue.
I believe I was using Omnisphere in the previous tests.

When looking at the waves, specially the faster automations, the difference it’s even more obvious and the automations are just straight lines.


MIDI CC Resolution.zip (2.3 MB)

I installed C12 again, and I can see the same issue, though this is now more obvious when using the new simplified CC recording.
In this case it’s just a volume automation, but when automating filters or other parameters the results are barely usable.

Also comes to mind, that now that MIDI 2.0 is being supported, the vertical high resolution is pretty much useless without enoguh horizontal resolution as well.

Thank so much for looking into all this! :slight_smile:

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Hi,

Thank you for the great example, @arieln . Much appreciated!

I can confirm it, now. Even though it’s not new in Cubase 13.

Reported to Steinberg. Thank you!

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Maybe you can not comment fully but, If this is now recognised as “not new” any chance the fix can be made to 12 before support is withdrawn from 12, please?

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This finding also applied to ramp vs step when drawing MIDI CC. Ramps had the smaller time resolution.

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Hi,

Yes, that was the point of trying to reproduce it in Cubase 12.

And yes, I can confirm, the resolution is smaller when Ramp is in use.

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Maybe Snap is on in the Keyeditor

Just a reminder where to change Ramp to Step :slightly_smiling_face:

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The way curves and ramps for MIDI CCs are implemented in Cubase now makes them completely unusable! The sample rate used to translate them to discrete CC values is way too low. Look at how these ramps and curves get translated to note expressions (MIDI > Note Expression > Convert to Note Expression). The result of this modulation sounds horrible.

This needs to be fixed. Otherwise don’t put it as a feature cause this feature is unusable and sounds horrible. Using the Step type of controller events might produce smother results but it is absolutely cumbersome to work with. It is just an archaic thing in 2024.

Ramps in Ableton Live:

Ramps in Cubase:

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Thanks for the much clearer description!.

@Martin.Jirsak Is there any hope for this to be addressed?

Hi,

As far as I know, it’s in progress.

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Hi Martin!
Do you know if this issue with poor resolution when using Ramp mode is related to the issue described in this topic?

Hi,

You could try to switch the PitchBend to the Jump mode to figure it out.

Right. So you don’t know. That’s all you needed to say.

THIS! (“Type of new controller events”) I’ve been pulling my hair out trying to find a way to capture the nuanced modulation changes for a string section, and THIS did the trick! It kept downsampling my input to those low resolution averages, where there seems to be no way to control the resolution. Wow. Just wow.
Thank you!

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